tbaangel-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 19 Today's Topics: Re: Re: eps I want to see... Thank you! Re: Not-an-intro & eps I want to see... Re: People Magazine Re: eps I want to see... TBAA Re: eps I want to see... Unidentified subject! Re: tbaangel-d Digest V97 #17 Please - no more Promised Land discussion Re: Please - no more Promised Land discussion I like Hudson as -- no, that's a different post -- I like Zoloft! Roma Re: Please - no more Promised Land discussion Format of Digest #18 Re: Not-an-intro & eps I want to see... Re: eps I want to see... belief and atheists (an ep I want to see) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:33:47 CST From: 971hays @ addy.addy.edu To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Re: eps I want to see... Di wrote: >I'd like to see our angels actually meet and help someone who was a well- >educated atheist who stayed true to their beliefs and never did believe >in the angels or God. I think that's a good idea. The human would have to have some way to rationalize his/her experience with the angels so that he/she could accept the help without believing. Maybe the person could believe that it was some sort of psi phenomenon - maybe believe the angels are humans with some sort of precognition or psychic ability. Another possibility is that the person could believe that the angels are a creation of his/her own unconscious mind. I think another interesting ep might involve the angels' reactions to someone who claims (genuinely) to be a psychic or something similar. I think that might be a hard one, since some denominations feel so strongly about the subject. The producers/writers also might not want to come down one way or the other on this issue. Later, Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:38:56 -0600 From: Mariann To: TBAAngel @ .execpc.com Subject: Thank you! 1. I must really thank the people who responded on the TBAA List as well as personally to me regarding my Subject "Sunday's Episode". You all made me feel so much better! My mother devoted her life to God and God's work and all I ever wanted to do was be there for her and say and do the right things. (March 25th was the 4th ann. of her death) Thanks again for all your kind words! It made it easier to deal with the anniversary. You are all so wonderful! :) 2. I'm a little disappointed that PL isn't allowed to be talked about on here anymore, but I do understand the position of it being hard to keep up with TWO shows. :) So, if anyone does come up with a PL Mailing list, please, please, please add my e-mail address to it! :) Perhaps Jackson would like to do it? *hint* ;) Keep smiling, Mariann ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:45:57 -0500 (EST) From: Signpraise @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Not-an-intro & eps I want to see... In a message dated 97-03-26 12:28:57 EST, you write: << wants to be. As mortals and Christians, it is our responsibility to lead people to the Lord. And sometimes we have to be a little "preachy" to get the job done. Plus Russell can't come out and say "I am a mortal sent by God to tell you He loves you" while a heavenly light shines on him. He simply has to work in a different fashion. >> Jackson...Not only do I agree with you, but your comment above made me laugh. LOL :-D I have a feeling that we will all enjoy your comments on this list. Keep the humor(in good taste as above of course) coming! Take Care...Judy 0:-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:47:29 -0500 (EST) From: Signpraise @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: People Magazine In a message dated 97-03-26 14:38:38 EST, you write: << Looks like there will be an upcoming article in People...within the next several weeks...not sure of the date..but be on the lookout... Susan >> Susan, if you find out before the rest of us please keep remember to tell us. That's great...how does everyone seem to know all this inside information...I am grateful for all the news everyone shares..I will check the newstands as much as possible in the next few weeks. Judy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:54:10 -0500 (EST) From: Signpraise @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: eps I want to see... Sean Ohhhhhhh, I don't think I would want to see them deal with the physics stuff at all. I would find it very offensive. You were right when you said a lot of denominations do not believe in it. I do remember however the one ep when they almost did deal with this. Remember the 2 part crossover ep with PL well, there was a woman who studied the horoscopes daily and she also obviously studied the stars finally she said near the end of the 2nd part of the show...(I am paraphrasing mostly of course) "I know about the stars, but I want to know more about the one who created those stars!" I was really happy to hear that! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:13:40 -0800 From: Richard Treadwell To: TBAAngel @ .execpc.com Subject: TBAA Greetings Ya'll Diane E, wrote "Or someone with a history of schizophrenia or hallucinations... might quite honestly doubt that they're seeing what they're seeing and hearing what they're hearing." ...Or a perfectly ordinary human being might honestly doubt that they're seeing what they're seeing and hearing what they're hearing and so might say, "I must have gotten out the right side of the bed this morning," or "this must be my lucky day," or "I didn't know I had it in me," or "what a narrow miss" or "the thought just came to me." In short, IMO, TBAA happens all the time in real life, and we excuse it away. Haven't we been hearing about that in some of the "intros?" In His Love, Dick+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:47:34 -0500 (EST) From: AMarsh8597 @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: eps I want to see... Do I have any volunteers in writing a script of such a topic of an atheists who still doesn't believe after seeing the evidence? I have had it explained to me once that an atheist must have an incredible amount of faith to say that they don't believe. There are so many things that are unknown and that boggles human's penile minds that they spend their whole life tryingto figure it out. How can someone say that they have the solution for everything, and that nothing is a "supernatural" mystery to them? "I've met people before who didn't believe in angels, but I've never before met one that didn't want to." That would never happen. Because it is difficult to put trust and belief and faith in something that is unseen, I'll admit to that. But to still say that you don't believe even after you have seen concrete evidence is highly unlikely. This is not a statistics class where we are dealing with probablity. I noticed in Sean's post he mentioned the word "believe" 4 times in talking about atheists believing. Just my 2 cents. :) Also could someone enlighten me on where a "well educated atheist" gets their degree from? Just curious. :) "v" peace, :) O:) Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:14:01 -0500 (EST) From: deelady @ .addy..com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Cc: finabair @ .addy.com Subject: Unidentified subject! To One And All Hello again, hopefully I am back "online" again. This *thing* crashed big time last night and I have been eating asprin ever since! I had to switch mail programs as the one keeps hanging the computer. Not fun, when you have to reformat the hard drive and start all over. Anywhos, This past Sunday's episode was one of the ones that no matter how many times I'll watch it (yes I taped it), I'll end up crying at the end. I literally had to walk out of the room and out of ear range. The only other episode that affects me that way is The Violin Lesson (Basically because I lost a friend to AIDS just 4 months prior). Although there are always scenes in all the episodes that brings a tear or two to my eyes. I'm not real comfortable with the idea of death (even if Andrew were to be my guide). Those scenes where the guy looked into the light and then saw the darkness kind of gets to me. I can hardly wait for the new season to begin, and yet I don't want to wish away my summer. I am definately planning on enjoying this one. If I don't get a chance to talk to you all (in other words if this *thing* crashes again) before Easter, you all have a Happy Easter. Don't anyone forget about the Oprah show Fri!!! Until later. TTFN Diana deelady @ .addy..com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:57:03 -0800 From: marlis ostermann To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: tbaangel-d Digest V97 #17 Hello again :-) As I read this list, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that John Dye/Andrew is very easy on the eyes (for us girls, at least. I'm sure that Roma and Hudson are equally pleasant for the men to look at ;-). That is only a small part of what makes him attractive for me, however. I really like the personality that he plays on the screen. I don't know what he's like in real life, but if you read the FAQs on Susan's Web page, he seems to be a very kind, sensitive individual, and I have a feeling that there's a lot of John Dye in Andrew. I tell you, if the real Angel of Death looks anything like Andrew, he can lead me to the Pearly Gates anytime I'd also like to contribute my two cents to the Callisto/Celeste debate. I usually don't get home in time to watch Xena, so I had never seen Hudson as Callisto before I saw her as Celeste. I think she did a fine job in Angel of Death, but I do agree that they did mature her character too quickly. They spent three years developing Monica's character from a naive innocent, but in Labor of Love, it seems that Celeste just leaped right past Monica, character-wise. It might have been an idea to have an episode dedicated to her 'training', where Tess, Monica, and Andrew show her the ropes, and observe her on a couple of 'mini' assignments. They could have milked some good comedy out of that one, I think. Incidentally, soon after Labor of Love, I did catch the end of the Xena episode, just when Callisto was going under the quicksand. That's the first, and only time I'd seen her on that show.(not much to compare from) Anyways, I've bored all of you enough for tonight ;-) Later all:-) Marlis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:26:10 -0500 (EST) From: Finabair @ .addy.com To: TBAAngel @ .execpc.com Subject: Please - no more Promised Land discussion OK, I posted the note outlawing Promised Land discussion 24 hours ago, so by now everyone should have gotten it and read it. Which means, I expect not to see any further discussion of Promised Land. I hate to do it, but the next Promised Land post I see will result in the person who posted being unsubscribed from the list for two days. The rules *have* to be followed, everyone. It's not negotiable. Everyone should have read them...if you have any questions feel free to e-mail me privately. Take care, Jennie finabair @ .addy.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:12:14 -0500 (EST) From: AMarsh8597 @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com, TBAAngel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Please - no more Promised Land discussion what's the prob with PL discussions? I must've skimmed over all those posts about PL. I don't watch PL. But I don't know how we can not insome way to use PL in our discussion everynow and then. Just a thought. Soo you Andrea :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:25:11 -0500 (EST) From: Everheart @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: I like Hudson as -- no, that's a different post -- I like Zoloft! In a message dated 97-03-26 22:07:02 EST, the technically ept Diane wrote: >snip!< > One thing I would dearly love to see is an episode where a human the > angels are sent to help *doesn't* believe the angels are angels and > therefore rejects their message from honest doubt. I think it's bound > to happen, sooner or later. Two obvious possibilities for this: a > "rationalist" who refuse to believe anything s/he can't prove > empirically, because you can't *prove* God. Sartre gave it a go. But it was in French, so I don't know if he did it or not. >(You can't prove love, or trust, or beauty, either, but they're real, too. ) Oooo, I like that -- Tess & Co. having to offer rational reasons for someone to take a path. (Though we have to be careful here and not automatically assume that doubt and rational thought are necessarily bad things. God, after all, gifted us with both to stop us giving our credit-card numbers to total strangers over the phone or walking through the Port Authority alone 0;-) .) What's that great bit from Lewis' The Silver Chair... Jill and Eustace are trying to convince the Queen of Underland of the existance of Aslan, the sun, etc., and the Queen points out that anything they describe can easily be explained as extrapolations of things that exist in the underground world, and they're obviously loopy. And finally Puddleglum (oh, read the book!) says: "Suppose we *have* only dreamed, or made up, all those things -- trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself...all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones.... We're just babies making up a game if you're right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your real world hollow. .. I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there in't any Narnia." Which doesn't *directly* apply to the situation posed above, but any excuse to quote it... >Or someone with a > history of schizophrenia or hallucinations (LSD use has been known to > cause flashbacks years later) might quite honestly doubt that they're > seeing what they're seeing and hearing what they're hearing. A > schizophrenic in recovery, who saw/heard "demons" or "devils" telling > them to do bad things when they were ill (a very common hallucination) > might very well assume the "angels" were just another manifestation of > their illness, and promptly check themselves into a hospital for > medication adjustment. :) Speaking from experience (not with angels -- that I know of -- but with some adventures with prescription medications a couple years ago), I'd get a giggle out of this, too. I went through a period of adjustment during which, for several weeks, I experienced such imaginary (I assume) companions as a Mountie in full-dress uniform -- he hung out in the juice aisle at the grocery store -- and a family of very large but personable snails who lived at the base of the photocopier at work. None of this was particularly frightening. I mean, I knew them for what they were, and the company was welcome (I still kinda miss 'em, to be honest), but if, for some reason, I'd been visited by angels during that period, I would've been polite but wary of any advice they had to offer. ("John...I want you to become a golf pro.") Oh, and don't worry, I'm muh-muh-muh-muh-much better now. The bats! The bats! Something I'd like to see is somebody believing in the angels, but then doing the Bart Simpson torturing his Sunday school teacher number on them: "Are there cavemen in Heaven? What about pets? If a guy loses his arm, is it waiting for him in Heaven when he dies? If I kill a bug will I go to Hell?" And the dialogue I'd most like to hear: "I'm an angel. Sent by God." "Really? How *is* God?" (pause) "Um...fine." "Good." Or not. Grateful for the brain guys, Ann Everheart @ .addy.com (No hallucinatory cephalopods were harmed during the making of this post.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:03:18 -0500 (EST) From: JCWEAVER @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Roma After reading the article in the TV Guide, I kept wondering about Roma and all the trials she went through in her country. I figured that TBAA is God's way of healing the scars that was left on her. I suppose living in that kind of turnoil really shakes up one's spirituality. I have not been through that kind of fire that would have tested mine, I have been lucky. I suppose when Roma came to the States, her spirit was not as strong and vibrant as we see it today. Maybe her faith was really put to the test when confronted with two opposing sides of religions battling it out for, what? I still can't figure it out. I wonder if God could. As I reread the article, Johns' faith was put through the fire, but I did not see anything about if Della went through anything as traumatic in her life. They are blessed to be part of TBAA. Maybe it is Gods' way of healing and bringing a message to us all: He loves us. John C. Weaver Reseda, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:45:28 -0500 (EST) From: Finabair @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Please - no more Promised Land discussion >what's the prob with PL discussions? I must've skimmed over all those posts The problem is, they are off topic. It's OK to discuss PL *only* if you are discussing PL/TBAA crossover episodes, and only within the context of the crossover, please. And *please* remember to e-mail any further questions to me privately. My address is in the .sig. Take care, Jennie finabair @ .addy.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:50:08 -0500 (EST) From: JuliaDnly @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Format of Digest #18 I found this latest digest very hard to read. I know these mailing lists can get complicated at times (I'm on several, which is why I try to receive them as digests), but on this list it's very difficult to know who each post is from, and sometimes where one ends and another begins. It helps if quotes from someone else's post are clearly set off from the response. Perhaps a dividing line between each post, as I believe was done before, would help. I may be the only one who doesn't care for this format, but the titles or subject matter of the post at the top of the digest, and then nothing at the beginning of each post, makes it very confusing. It might be easier to read if it were done something like this: ____________________ Last Week's Episode From: soandso @ .e-mail Someone said: <> I agree, and furthermore... Soandso ____________________ How do other people feel about the current format? Am I the only one having trouble with it? If so, maybe I should sign up for the individual posts instead. Not so much complaining, I hope, as suggesting. Shari ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:08:38 -0800 From: Sky Dancer To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Not-an-intro & eps I want to see... Jack Koke wrote: > > In TBAA, Monica, Tess, and Andrew have certain guidelines that they must > follow because they are angels. Angels serve the Lord, and therefore since > God gives us mortals free will to make our own decisions so must his angels. > That is why Monica, Tess, and Andrew seem to lead people to the right > decision, whereas Russell Greene is not under the same constraints. He is > one of us, a mortal. He has free will himself. Therefore he can be > "preachy" if he wants to be. As mortals and Christians, it is our > responsibility to lead people to the Lord. And sometimes we have to be a > little "preachy" to get the job done. This is precisely why I love the show so much. It says clearly in the bible that God made us in his image. If God's angels do his bidding, shouldn't this be a lesson to us all? We have no right to be "preachy" to anyone. We should be as loving as God is, if INDEED we are made in his image. We should be as God and understand that we all have free will, and that a relationship with God is a very PERSONAL thing. If GOD will not force people into believing a certain way, why should we if we are TRULY made in his image. This is what touches my heart so about the show and how Martha Williamson has written the scripts. It should be a testament to all mankind of who God is and how he works. If he made us in his image, we should respect his values (i.e. not trying to "bully" people into OUR beliefs). When I see how lovingly Della, Roma, and John interact with people in the series I see God's very essence...that which I have asked him to show me. God is everywhere and everything, not confined to our small thoughts of existence. He doesn't want us to force people into loving them, nor does he want people to think they can reach him simply by their deeds (was that not the whole emphasis on last week's EP?). GOD wants us to come to his love because something inside of us see's its beauty and wants to be in that light. Everyday people pray for God to show them who he really is. Last weeks EP couldn't have shown it any better. It reminds me of the joke about the Christian and the flood. The police drive through a small town announcing that everyone should evacuate. The Christian stays in his house and yells out "I have nothing to fear, God will save me." As the waters rise he goes up the the second floor. As a police boat goes by, trying to rescue him from the house he shouts out "I have nothing to fear, God will save me." Finally, with the waters almost about to overtake the house, a helicopter arrives and the rescuers BEG the man to take the rope and save himself. Again he cries out "I have nothing to fear, God will save me." Finally the waters overtake him and he dies. Upon reaching heaven he looks to God and says "Father, why didn't you save me? I believed with all my heart that your almighty power would protect and keep me from harm? And God says, "I sent you a police car, a boat, and a helicopter to save you. What else did you want me to do?" We pray to see God before us, yet refuse to see him in the simplest and most obvious of things. Martha Williamson and the cast of TBAA show me weekly what I have prayed for God to reveal all throughout my life. My God is a loving God. He gave me free will and would never overstep it's bounds by using force to try and get me to love him. And we see that love every week in TBAA. But that's just MHO. Everyone else is free to believe what they may as is their free will. ;) ===================================================================== In Love and Light, Sky Dancer ===================================================================== http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/3471/ ===================================================================== * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Virginia Beach, VA ---- Head for the Beach!!!! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ===================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:33:18 -0800 From: Sky Dancer To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: eps I want to see... AMarsh8597 @ .addy.com wrote: > Also could someone enlighten me on where a "well educated atheist" gets their > degree from? Just curious. :) I used to be on a local BBS and we have a VERY long discussion about God there. The dead-set "atheist" (or so THEY said) will not believe in God because he is not something you can touch, feel, hear, or see blatantly in front of you. They believe that we as humans are completely responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to us...there is no "chance, luck or fate." "Well educated" to me (and I found this to be true about those who claimed to be true "atheists") seemed to mean they were heavy into sciences - that which can easily be explained in this reality. The only thing they will accept is God's face in front of theirs, nothing else. And much like Dana Scully on the X-Files, they seek scientific explanations for everything. ===================================================================== In Love and Light, Sky Dancer ===================================================================== http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/3471/ ===================================================================== * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Virginia Beach, VA ---- Head for the Beach!!!! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ===================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:41:04 CST From: 971hays @ addy.addy.edu To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: belief and atheists (an ep I want to see) Andrea wrote: >I noticed in Sean's post he mentioned the word "believe" 4 times in talking >about atheists believing. Two comments: 1- We all have to believe something (well, most of us anyway). After all, nature abhors a vacuum. In order to justify disbelief in God, especially after one has seen enough evidence that God does exist to convince most of us, a person would have to believe something that would explain the evidence. A person who truly examines his/her beliefs or lack thereof would have to explain the evidence. 2- It's "she", not "he" -- should have made that clear in my intro. If only it were so easy to tell all of the advertisers, etc. who make the same mistake in my regular mail. And: >Also could someone enlighten me on where a "well educated atheist" gets their >degree from? I suppose any old state college would do. I wouldn't expect to see them at Baylor or TCU, though. Maybe Madeline Murray O'Hare University. (HaHa) Later, Sean -------------------------------- End of tbaangel-d Digest V97 Issue #19 **************************************