tbaangel-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 21 Today's Topics: Re: quo vadis catherine? Re: eps I want to see... Andrew Ep we'd like to see.. SPOILIER enclosed Eps I'd like to see Re: Eps I'd like to see A few comments on TBAA Re: Format of Digest #18 (and Sky is Falling) Re: A few comments on TBAA Re: A few comments on TBAA Re: A few comments on TBAA Catherine/Kathleen Re:Sky is Falling TV Guide Article - John Dye Re: TV Guide Article - John Dye Re: Sky is Falling Re: TBAAngel digests & formatting Re: Format of Digest #18 Re: yet more eps i'd like to see. When Angels Speak Re: When Angels Speak ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:24:42 -0600 (CST) From: gryphon @ addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: quo vadis catherine? On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Finabair @ .addy.com wrote: >In a message dated 03/27/97 5:03:03 PM, you wrote: >>It seemed to me that catherine did turn back; when she spoke with >That is the impression I got as well...although I think the angel's > name is Kathleen.I must say, that one falls under my list of >'eps I would like to see'. I would love to see what became of Kathleen >after that. She is an excellent character, IMHO. I agree. Myself, I'd like to see an ep where Kathleen has asked to be taken back, and was given a task to do to demonstrate her sincerity-- something simple, maybe related to one of Monica's assignments-- without any *promise* that she'd be accepted back (of course, she *should* know that, according to the tenents of faith as presented on the show, all she has to do is ask, sincerely-- but this is the angel who took "a better offer" from Evil, so she'd probably have her doubts.) and then her supervisor from "the other side" shows up and encourages her to deliberately blow it by promising to take her back..... I think watching Kathleen struggle with the temptation, knowing one side hasn't made any promises and she can't really trust the other to keep theirs, would be very.... instructive. In addition to being a nice lesson on the deviousness of Evil (anybody else here read CS Lewis's "Screwtape Letters"?) it would be interesting to watch Monica struggle with the knowledge that she can't *make* her friend trust God (or anyone else). Of course, it could also turn out that Kathleen's whole "they threw me out" routine is an *act* to get her back into Heaven's beaurocracy-- a sort of deep-cover mole for evil, as it were.... Don't I get the *strangest* ideas? ;) Diane E # "Nothing that is made by God is queer." Monica, TBAA # # D Echelbarger gryphon @ addy.com # # WWW HomePage: . # # Join the new Touched By An Angel mailing list! # # .tbaangel.html # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: AMarsh8597 @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: eps I want to see... It was said: " but I think show would have even more impact if they *occasionally* reflected reality so that not everything worked out all neat and tidy." For me I enjoy watching TBAA because of the hope that it gives me. I like to walk away with that "feel good feeling that says 'yes maybe I could do something like that too-that I could be an angel to someone in need.'" O:) In terms of an ep that I was thinking would be fun to see, would be something based on Point of Grace's "The House that Mercy Built". (contemporary Christian female pop quartet) It would be fun to see one or all 4 of the girls on the show and Tess could join in in song. The song is basically about a house for young single teenage moms with no where else to go. I know they probably have done something similiar. But I wonder how much they'd have to pay Point of Grace to appear as a guest star? Just an observation Monica's relationship with Sam in the "Labor of Love" ep: Ever since the ep "Groundrush", Sam seemed to look upon Monica with .....disdain(I think that's the word I'm looking for). Almost the fact that she is so *young* and he is so *superior*(I mean come on Sam is practically rubbing elbows with the Big Guy), thus he doesn't have time or patience to deal with her *infancy*. What does anyone else think? :) Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:03:14 EST From: rebwald @ .addy.com (Rebecca A Waldrop) To: TBAAngel @ .execpc.com Subject: Andrew Darla Bradley wrote: >>Yes, Andrew IS Adorable! How do I join AiA? >>Andrew would be adorable even if John was not so strikingly handsome. >>Sensitivity and a compassionate heart can make ANY man extremely >>appealing. >>. .of course, John's good looks are just icing on the cake! Works for me. I completely and wholeheartedly agree! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:41:31 -0500 (EST) From: deelady @ .addy..com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Ep we'd like to see.. SPOILIER enclosed To one and all For those of you who don't like the slightest info on the upcoming episode of TBAA< I am including the word **Spoilier** >One thing I would dearly love to see is an episode where a human the >angels are sent to help *doesn't* believe the angels are angels and >therefore rejects their message from honest doubt. Well, we sort of get our chance to see a similar type of episode. When I looked up the info on this weeks episode (which is at the web site for TBAA) it said: In a neighborhood bar filled with many cynical and hopeless souls, Monica is given the overwhelming task of having to choose only one person whose life will be changed forever by a miracle; but, when she attempts to dispense the miracle, she is shocked to find that no one seems to want it. Can't wait to see how she decided which one and how she finally convinces them. I wonder if she'll get any "help" from Andrew :-)JAGCAA >>Why let Shawn & his Dad get into a >>*fatal* accident in the youth center episode (do we know a title for this >>yet?) why not just a nasty accident? I finally got the name of that episode, it's official title is "Crisis of Faith". Now I have the names of all the episodes this season. Until tomorrow (especially after Oprah! I'm already leaving work early just to make sure I'm home, the vcr works, the phone is turned off, the doors are locked ..):-) TTFN Diana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:52:42 EST From: rebwald @ .addy.com (Rebecca A Waldrop) To: TBAAngel @ .execpc.com Subject: Eps I'd like to see **I am going to try to word this carefully so it doesn't appear that I am advocating a TV show try to capitalize on a tragedy.** In light of what happened in San Diego yesterday, what do you think of TBAA doing a show where the angels try to "rescue" (for lack of a better word) someone from a cult before they do what those in San Diego did? Also, it would be interesting to see how Andrew would deal with anyone who did end up committing suicide, because I have always been taught that if you committed suicide you were automatically barred from heaven. The way I understand it, it is kind of a punishment for putting your own will before God's. It seems to me that he would be very sad and pretty outraged at the same time, kind of like how he reacted to the foster parents trying to kill themselves in "The Journalist" (I think that was the name of the episode). Any thoughts? Rebecca rebwald @ .addy.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:08:59 -0600 (CST) From: gryphon @ addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Eps I'd like to see rebwald @ .addy.com (Rebecca A Waldrop) said: >Also, it would be interesting to see how Andrew would deal with anyone >who did end up committing suicide, because I have always been taught >that if you committed suicide you were automatically barred from >heaven. The way I understand it, it is kind of a punishment for >putting your own will before God's. That's interesting. I know the traditional Catholic view of suicide is that you go to hell because you die before you can ask for forgiveness for killing yourself. In that tradition, it's the failure to receive absolution that's the problem, not the suicide itself. I'd never heard your interpretation, but it's a fascinating viewpoint. > It seems to me that he would be very sad and pretty >outraged at the same time, kind of like how he reacted to the foster >parents trying to kill themselves in "The Journalist" (I think that was >the name of the episode). Outraged? At the foster parents? I would have said he was sad and sympathetic. And it seemed to be made pretty clear that Andrew was expecting to escort them to heaven, if he "had" to, and was hoping to avoid it. That would seem to imply that, at least in the TBAA universe, suicides are *not* automatically relegated to hell. Diane E # "Nothing that is made by God is queer." Monica, TBAA # # D Echelbarger gryphon @ addy.com # # WWW HomePage: . # # Join the new Touched By An Angel mailing list! # # .tbaangel.html # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:51:15 -0700 (MST) From: Dorothy E Tinkler To: tbaa Subject: A few comments on TBAA Hi everyone: >>That's interesting. I know the traditional Catholic view of suicide is that you go to hell because you die before you can ask for forgiveness for killing yourself. In that tradition, it's the failure to receive absolution that's the problem, not the suicide itself. I'd never heard your interpretation, but it's a fascinating viewpoint. A couple of comments about what everyone has been writing about. First I think the traditional Catholic view of suicide, at least recently is that they don't know who is going to hell, including suicides. The days of being buried at the cross roads are gone I think. As far as the angel's message being rejected. Isn't that what started up the cross over from PL? Monica had tried and failed to make a mark on the town and she was leaving discouraged. She got even more discouraged when she found out that humans would be doing her job. Tess told Monica her job was over when she was told her job was over. Now there's an interesting thought. How long do the angels have to hang in there before they give up a case as a lost cause? Afterall, as Sam told Monica in "Groundrush"..."stay in that closet as long as you want. I have an eternity to wait." I do agree however, that it would be interesting to see how they try to convince someone who isn't going to be convinced. Perhaps God only sends angels to people who can be helped by them?? The premise of the show would seem to indicate that (since everything works out in the end). I still have hopes for Kathleen. I would like it if she still turned out to be evil. There's nothing like a good villain. Not to mention the fact that she and Monica used to be friends. Kathleen even taught Monica the ropes during her search and rescue days. Just my thoughts. Dorothy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 00:12:00 -0500 (EST) From: AmilynH @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Format of Digest #18 (and Sky is Falling) In a message dated 97-03-27 18:32:58 EST, Diane E. wrote: >It's that format or none at all, so long as we're >on this listserv. This makes sense. If we can't change the format of the digests, we can't. I would really find it easier to read the individual posts if there is at least a blank line between the text that is quoted and the reply to that comment, whatever style of quoting the poster is using. I know that there is no official policy, but I wanted to just put in my two cents (again) because I forgot to comment on the helpfulness of the blank line in my earlier post. ObTBAA: I am rewatching "The Sky is Falling". I hope that they rerun that soon because I've just about worn out the tape. It's such an *excellent* episode. With the exception of the (explain-away-able) Nazi information, they did such *excellent* work with the 30's period stuff. (And Allyce Beasley looked *lovely* in the period clothes and hairstyle, as did Monica. I also loved the little hats everyone in the street were wearing. I love hats....) I am just terribly impressed with the period mentality they gave their characters. The father was such a 30's type of male figure, and the mother is very well done as well....part of this was, of course, because they had *excellent* guest actors. I love Allyce and Brian Keith. And there was such excellent dialogue....I just love this ep. I'm going to stop now, as I've said this repeatedly and will probably say it all again when we get the rerun. :-) You know, I think that Della must have the *hugest* collection of angel pins and jewelry possible to assemble in this country. Bright Blessings, Amilyn *** ---- Capitalism is based on the assumption that you can win. Socialism is based on the assumption that you can break even. Mysticism is based on the assumption that you can quit the game. (This was not mine, btw, Di, it is from a button catalogue.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 21:58:59 -0800 (PST) From: john flanders To: Dorothy E Tinkler cc: tbaa Subject: Re: A few comments on TBAA > > I still have hopes for Kathleen. I would like it if she still turned out > to be evil. There's nothing like a good villain. Not to mention the fact > that she and Monica used to be friends. Kathleen even taught Monica the > ropes during her search and rescue days. > > Just my thoughts. > > Dorothy > I dont think we need any more villains in any show! There are enough everywhere, everyday! my 2 cents john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:34:14 -0700 (MST) From: Dorothy E Tinkler To: john flanders cc: tbaa Subject: Re: A few comments on TBAA Sorry John: I guess I just look at it as the better the villian, the better the good people look. I also like to cheer on the good side and see how they are able to conquer evil, as we all must in one form or another. But, rock on John, I am sure that we will both be satisfied. Dorothy On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, john flanders wrote: > > > > I still have hopes for Kathleen. I would like it if she still turned out > > to be evil. There's nothing like a good villain. Not to mention the fact > > that she and Monica used to be friends. Kathleen even taught Monica the > > ropes during her search and rescue days. > > > > Just my thoughts. > > > > Dorothy > > > > I dont think we need any more villains in any show! There are enough > everywhere, everyday! > > my 2 cents > > john > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:35:17 -0500 (EST) From: AmilynH @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: A few comments on TBAA In a message dated 97-03-28 02:00:07 EST, Dorothy wrote: > I still have hopes for Kathleen. I would like it if she still turned out > to be evil. There's nothing like a good villain. Not to mention the fact > that she and Monica used to be friends. Kathleen even taught Monica the > ropes during her search and rescue days. I totally agree with this. Kathleen is an excellent villain, and Jasmine Guy plays the part very well. I think that the betrayal factor of her having once been Monica's friend is an interesting angle that they get to explore in eps with Kathleen. I thought that they did a really good job of dealing with this concept in "Clipped Wings" with Cloris Leachman's character. (This is totally snarky, but does anyone else think Cloris *really* needs to change her hairdo? I have never liked this particular 'do on her, and she's had it now for quite a long time.) It was interesting to watch her beat up on herself, believing that she could have, should have done *something* to have prevented Kathleen's gafiation. I really appreciated the moment of Tess explaining that sometimes things go wrong, no matter how hard people (and angels) try, there are times when the desired end result is not achieved. I'm actually really enjoying this compilation we're all engaging in of the moments of realism and things-not-working out that have occurred thus far on the show. It's *very* interesting. I have also really enjoyed Di and Diane's(and others'?) suggestions about Kathleen being perhaps an infiltrator into the angel order, or having the opportunity to try to do case work again, but being tempted by her supervisor to return to the side of evil, etc. I do agree with John Flanders that there is enough evil in the world we already live in ("... Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt. 6:34). I tend to sometimes think that since we live with the troubles and bad bits here day-to-day that it is nicer to have our fiction be somewhat absent of such things. At the same time, I agree with C.S. Lewis that while fiction should be upbeat, it should not give the false impression that there is no evil in the world. I think Lewis put it especially well in a comment from his essay "On Three Ways of Writing For Children" from the collection _Of Other Worlds_, "Since it likely that [children] will meet cruel enemies, let them at least have heard of brave knights and heroic courage. Otherwise you are making their destiny not brighter but darker. ...Let there be wicked kings and beheadings, battles and dungeons, giants and dragons, and let the villains be soundly killed at the end of the book." I believe that if there is no evil, the fiction is rather weaker, and if the evil is present and then vanquished, it leaves the good looking all the stronger, just as each refuted argument against a point *strengthens* that point. So I am all for the presence of (and destruction of) evil in TBAA. And I think that the show, with its grounding in the Judeo-Christian tradition, will perforce have to deal with the evil attendant to that tradition, as it did when the angels confronted the Evil One himself (John Schneider) in "In the Name of God". Kathleen, by extension, is a logical outgrowth of that as representative of Evil. I believe that there is a level at which there just *are* evil forces that almost have to be addressed in order to have a counterpoint against which to define Good. I think that there is a great deal of TBAA that is actually villain-less, and I really like that as well. I think that it is very accurate to a lot of the problems that one encounters in "real life" that each person just understood the situation differently and worked at cross-purposes to create a less-than-optimal result. I think that "The Journalist" is perhaps the finest example of this; no one in that ep is really the bad guy. Rocky is doing what she believes she must, and working for what she believes are the best interests of everyone involved. The informant lady was not malicious, she was just off her meds. The foster parents were acting in the best interests of the kids. No one was "bad", but no one saw the whole picture, either. Nicely done. Bright Blessings, Amilyn --- May the spirits stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you walk. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:34:36 -0500 From: Jack Koke To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Catherine/Kathleen Sorry about the mistake, all I could remember was that it was an old fashion name. I will try to do better in the futur. Please forgive me IN CHRIST NAME AND LOVE FOREVER Jackson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:13:23 -0600 (CST) From: gryphon @ addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re:Sky is Falling On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, AmilynH @ .addy.com wrote: >ObTBAA: I am rewatching "The Sky is Falling". I hope that they rerun >With the exception of the (explain-away-able) Nazi information, they >did such *excellent* work with the 30's period stuff. (And Allyce >Beasley looked *lovely* in the period clothes and hairstyle, So she *was* in a TBAA episode? Then I wasn't totally hallucinating. (That's comforting, isn't it, Harvey? ;> ) What did she play? Not the Angel of Etiquette, that was Estelle Getty. One of the townspeople, maybe? :) Diane E # "Nothing that is made by God is queer." Monica, TBAA # # D Echelbarger gryphon @ addy.com # # WWW HomePage: . # # Join the new Touched By An Angel mailing list! # # .tbaangel.html # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:59:14 -0500 From: Jan Plemons To: Tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: TV Guide Article - John Dye My favorite part of the TV Guide article is when Roma says she had the privilege of attending a funeral with John. He said that the whole crowd kind of gasped when he walked in. He also said he has a lot of fun walking on to an airplane. Can you imagine being at a funeral or on an airplane and the "angel of death" walks in. Jan Knoxville, TN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:08:04 -0500 (EST) From: JCWEAVER @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com, Tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: TV Guide Article - John Dye If I am not mistaken, Della had a similar reaction when she was on an airplane. Someone said that they were alright since they had an angel on board. Just saw a clip of Oprah that had our favorite stars on. Now, if I can just locate a blank video cassette...hmm...... John C. Weaver Lost in thought in Reseda, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:18:42 -0500 (EST) From: AmilynH @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Sky is Falling In a message dated 97-03-28 09:59:26 EST, Diane E. wrote: >So she *was* in a TBAA episode? Then I wasn't totally hallucinating. >(That's comforting, isn't it, Harvey? ;> ) What did she play? Not the >Angel of Etiquette, that was Estelle Getty. Well, Allyce Beasley was in "The Sky is Falling" as the mom, but she is the lady who played Ms. DiPesto on Moonlighting. Alice Ghostly was only in "Labor of Love", and she is the actress who was Esmeralda on Bewitched and Bernice on Designing Women. Bright Blessings, Amilyn ---- I could confuse them to death; you know I could do that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:47:47 -0600 (CST) From: gryphon @ addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: TBAAngel digests & formatting I asked Tech Support at ExecPC about the formatting of the digests. As I suspected, it's a software issue. Specifically, it's an issue of what mail software the *receiver* (me, you, etc.) is using, not the software the list (ExecPC) uses. This is what they said (the indented stuff is me, the reply is them): <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 10:27:59 -0600 (CST) > When I read the digest on-line, the last line of the first post is >smack next to the first line of the next post. > But when I cut-and-paste into the word processor for the webpage, a >line of dashes appears between each post. Well, it involves the software -- let me explain. In the headers of the message, there is a header: Which indicates that the various sections of the list are "broken up" by the "bar" (----------------------------) that you see when the message is printed. The software you're using will either simply display the message as text (bar and all), or, if it is an intelligent mailer, break the post into its separate messages with the bar. So, when you're reading it on the web page, it's just all text. But in a mailer, it's more 'interactive'. I checked the SmartList documentation, and there does not appear to be any way to "turn off" this feature: it's the standard way that digests are handled on any automated list. Dave Cowen Director of Exec-PC Technical Support. ------------ http://www.execpc.com <---- End Forwarded Message ----> So, if you find the digests really hard to read without the breaks, you have the option of downloading them to your word processor and reading them there. I realize it's more awkward to reply to the digests if you're reading them off-line. I wish there was an easier solution, but there isn't. Diane E ListNanny # "Nothing that is made by God is queer." Monica, TBAA # # D Echelbarger gryphon @ addy.com # # WWW HomePage: . # # Join the new Touched By An Angel mailing list! # # .tbaangel.html # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:25:09 -0500 (EST) From: Signpraise @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: Format of Digest #18 In a message dated 97-03-27 10:51:05 EST, you write: << might be easier to read if it were done something like this: ____________________ Last Week's Episode From: soandso @ .e-mail Someone said: <> I agree, and furthermore... >> I do agree with Shari...it may make things easier to understand, however, I have not run across this problem yet, but it probably would help. Just a thought. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:28:43 -0500 (EST) From: AMarsh8597 @ .addy.com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: yet more eps i'd like to see. I know we kind of got off this topic, but with the current news story and the list's new topic of discussion(adding evil to help enhance the good of the good characters) I couldn't resist. I think it would be fun for Monica, Tess, and Andrew to show up at that Rancho Santa Fe mansion to deliver a little Truth about Who made the stars. :) (Of course this visit would happen prior to the Hale-Bopp comet to streak across the sky.) There was a reporter, prior to the suicide, who went undercover and started to go through their initiation stuff. Just a thought. :) Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:35:44 -0500 (EST) From: deelady @ .addy..com To: tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: When Angels Speak March 28, 1997 6:32 p.m. from deelady @ .addy..com To One And All Just a quick note, **the book When Angels Speak is out**. I had mine reserved at B. Dalton and they just called, so I'm on my way to get it now. But I wanted to let you all know that it is now available! Will write more later on. Did everyone catch Oprah? TTFN. Diana Seals-Hopkins ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 19:25:49 -0600 From: Kay Martinez To: deelady @ .addy..com, tbaangel @ .execpc.com Subject: Re: When Angels Speak Hi Diana, >March 28, 1997 6:32 p.m. >from deelady @ .addy..com > >To One And All > Just a quick note, **the book When Angels Speak is out**. >I wanted to let you all know that it is now available! Thanks for the info. Will call my local Barnes & Noble when I get off-line :) > Did everyone catch Oprah? > TTFN. >Diana Seals-Hopkins > I did catch the angels on Oprah. Weren't they wonderful? I think they kinda blew Oprah's mind. A time or two, after comments from Della or John, it seemed to me that Oprah was a bit uncomfortable. Maybe uncomfortable is too strong a word, but it did appear to me she was trying to decide what they knew or had that she was missing. I like Oprah, usually watch her if I'm home, so please don't anyone misunderstand. I'm not putting her down. I did love the filmed piece from behind the scenes, especially the part of Della going around hugging everyone. I can't think of anything that would be more comforting than a hug from an angel! Whew! I don't comment often but when I do...I make up for being so quiet the rest of the time ;) Blessings, Kay -------------------------------- End of tbaangel-d Digest V97 Issue #21 **************************************